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[00:00:00] Dr. Katie Turk: My name is Katherine Turk. I'm a professor of history and women's and gender studies at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. In the winter of 2020, a group of 20 undergraduate students here at UNC began an ambitious project to comb the university's archives and recount the history of women on our campus, working all semester in challenging circumstances. And with lots of help from the staff at Louis Round Wilson Library and the UNC history department's digital history lab, the students put together an exhibit, a campus tour, a website and this podcast. Coming up, you'll hear the voices of students from class discussing the history they created together. You'll also hear the voices of some of the women who made this history, drawn from the interviews archived by the Southern Oral History Program. Since 1897, when the first half-dozen female students joined undergraduate classes of 800 or more, the history of sex and gender relations at UNC-Chapel Hill has been uneven and contested. Today, women are now the majority of undergraduate students and they are a rising proportion of the university's faculty and administration. But their earliest demands for full inclusion on their own terms remain elusive. To explore this history, we've used a thematic approach to understand women's experiences as students, workers and community members as they were shaped by race, class, age and sexuality. To recover women's contested place at UNC, including their resilience, progress and creativity, as well as the inequalities that remain, we've chosen the name "Climbing the Hill".
[00:01:42] Sarah Moore: Hi, my name is Sarah Moore. I am a 2020 graduate from UNC, where I majored in political science and gender and women's history. While UNC-Chapel Hill first allowed women to attend in 1897, the process of gaining equality between the sexes was much more gradual than any single date. The diversity of experiences for women who were first at UNC were not uniform, nor easy, as these women took the first steps towards change. These firsts were only the beginning of the future of women's higher education at UNC. Karen Lynn Parker was the first African American undergraduate woman to graduate from UNC. In 1963, she transferred to UNC from the Greensboro Woman's College. The following clip reflects on Parker's realization that she was the first Black woman undergraduate to stay at UNC.

[00:02:34] Karen Parker: I had no idea that I was the first African American woman undergrad to stay.
[00:02:44] Interviewer 1: Oh, you did not know that, at the time?
[00:02:45] Karen Parker: Not at the time. But by - somewhere about halfway through the semester, I figured it out. But I did not know that then. One thing I was determined to do and that really, really meant a lot to me was, I was determined to prove that we were not ignorant. And not only am I as smart as you, I am smarter than most of you.
[00:03:09] Sarah Moore: Parker's experience at the university as the first Black woman has been detailed in her journal, in which she expresses her feelings of dire isolation amidst the whiteness of her peers and professors. She even expressed apprehension that her legacy would be tokenized rather than viewed as a substantive contribution to the history of her time. These clips give insight to Parker's thoughts as she confronted fundamental questions about her identity.
[00:03:35] Karen Parker: I couldn't figure out my place in the world, on the planet. I wanted to make changes, I wanted to do things, I wanted to prove points. And what I ended up going to the campus shrink about was I was adopting a new social order, the one on campus, and giving up the one I came from. But, you know, I just couldn't find my place in the whole thing. That was a lot of, you know, "Where am I? Where do I belong? I can't be part of the campus here. I can't be part of the campus there." You know, "Where am I? Who am I? What am I supposed to be doing? I don't have a home. I don't fit in anywhere." That was bothering me.
[00:04:30] Sarah Moore: Parker's experiences of feeling like she did not belong at UNC did not exist within a vacuum. She was dealing with an identity crisis while simultaneously being an activist in the civil rights movement, where the social order of Jim Crow and second-class citizenship were being challenged. Parker's story reminds us of the internal challenges that firsts in the civil rights movement experienced in the face of overt and covert racism around them. In 1976, Mary Turner Lane became the first director of the Women's Studies program. She was also the founder of the Association for Women Faculty and chair of the Committee on the Status of Women. Prior to this, she was hired at UNC as an instructor in the School of Education in 1954 and helped negotiate the end of social restrictions that were explicitly for female students, like curfews. There are many firsts in UNC's history that have marked substantial strides for women in higher education. Both Parker and Lane overcame many obstacles and the insights given by these clips demonstrate the toll they felt as firsts. Their legacy shaped the landscape of UNC, and today 60% of students are women. Women have also confronted barriers and obstacles at UNC-Chapel Hill. These barriers are both structural and societal, encompassing everything from legal discrimination to sexual harassment. Although many women fought against these barriers, others upheld them. In order to take an intersectional approach, we examine the institutional and cultural expectations that women of different identities chose to defy. Despite progress that has been made to overcome barriers, many still remain and are actively resisted by women at UNC. In 1951, Pauli Murray, who already had a law degree, applied to the UNC law school for further education. Murray was denied admittance, despite a recent ruling saying that Black students could have 10 professional and graduate schools in the UNC system. She would later become a lawyer with the NAACP and coined the term "Jane Crow", describing the intersection of how racial discrimination specifically impacts Black women struggling to achieve both gender and racial equality. In this clip from an interview with Genna Rae McNeil, she discusses her views on feminism.
[00:06:54] Interviewer 2: With regard to sex dis- -- sex discrimination, you've been referred to as a "militant feminist". And I wonder if that's how you perceive yourself? And if so, did you begin to perceive yourself as a militant feminist at the point at which you finally felt sexism personally, or if this is something that happened later in your life, or if this is not relevant at all as far as you're concerned?
[00:07:31] Pauli Murray: To say that one is a militant feminist is a kind of relative term. In 1962, I might have been considered a militant feminist. In 1976, I might be considered a very moderate or even conservative feminist, if you - if you follow me. Because events may move people to take far more radical positions than I will take. I am radical to the extent that I wannato see the individual human being as free as is possible to fulfill that individual human being's potential, creative potential. And I am not, let's see, radical feminists are usually kind of today in our society, identified as white. I personally have two problems. That is, two problems which are built in. I must always be concerned, not theoretically, but I must be involved with and necessarily concerned with racial liberation. But I must also personally be concerned with sexual liberation, because the two - as I often say, the two meet in me. The two meet in any, any, uh, individual who is both woman and a member of an oppressed group or a minority group.
[00:09:22] Sarah Moore: Sherry Williamson transferred to UNC in 1978 to enter the journalism school and was the firsts lesbian editor of Lambda, the Carolina Gay Association's newsletter. In this clip, she describes guarding the CUBE outside of the Student Union advertising CGA's Gay Awareness Week and her fear of being outed after being photographed by the Daily Tar Heel.
[00:09:43] Sherry Williamson: Yes, the CUBE outside the Student Union was used. Is it still used today?
Interviewer: Yes, uh-huh.
Sherry Williamson: Yeah. Yeah, that's great. To advertise for different student groups. And I think the - where, where we had the most problem was like gay orientation - not gay orientation, don't wanna use that word.
Interviewer: Gay Awareness?
Sherry Williamson: That's loaded politically. Gay Awareness Week. And when I came here and I was coming out and joined and had just begun to participate with CGA, it was dur- -- as I said, during the Gay Awareness Week. And the group had had problems with people defacing the CUBE, about saying Gay Awareness Week and, you know, and, um, what some of the events were. So a group of, uh, CGA folks, um, I think mainly women, uh, decided to sleep out, they - we repainted the - the CUBE was repainted and to sleep out so that it wouldn't be defaced. So, um, while we were there and, you know, I don't know if people were asleep or not, I can't remember, but a Daily Tarheel photographer came and snapped a picture of - you know, without, you know, making us aware of the presence. And, uh, it was pretty scary for me because I thought, "Wow, you know, I'm gonna appear on the front of the Daily Tar Heel, I'm starting journalism school. Um, this may not be a good thing for my future career, and not to mention, my relationships with my family." I wasn't ready to come out and it would take me a long time, um, to reach a point where, for me, I needed to make that choice that it - because it felt more authentic. And, also the fact that, you know, the, the thing I really didn't wanna lose was, you know, my relationship with my grandmother. That wasn't an issue anymore and my parents had choices about whether or not, uh, to have a relationship with me after I came out. Um, but, uh, so it was funny and I was worried that my whole career had gone up in smoke.
[00:11:49] Sarah Moore: Williamson and the other members of CGA's experience of guarding the CUBE showcases how this was a hostile time for queer women at Carolina. While Murray and Williamson face very different types of barriers, they both resisted against the discrimination they faced and helped pave the way for continued intersectional activism today.
[00:12:11] McCall Holland: Hi, my name is McCall Holland and I am a senior here at UNC-Chapel Hill. I'm a history and peace, war and defense double major. The overarching topics we have been delving into this semester are the physical spaces on and around campus for women at UNC and the social lives of these women. We have engaged both of these topics in a holistic manner. When it comes to the subject of spaces for women, it is evident that women in academia have battled to build community and enhance their presence within the world of education. The following clip is from an interview with women's rights activist Jan Allen, who carved out a space for herself in higher education despite the obstacles she faced. After years of studying and working in the north, Allen moved to Chapel Hill to continue pursuing her cause.
[00:12:59] Jan Allen: One of the more interesting, I - well, there were two things there. My father didn't believe girls should go to college. And if they did, he thought they should be home ec majors. So my sister and I both went to Bucknell, which doesn't have a home ec major. I was not the least bit interested in home ec. I was interested in math. And probably given any kind of encouragement, I would have gone into engineering. My father was an engineer. But girls at that point were not really encouraged to do that, and I didn't really have any real goals. So but I was - I loved math. I didn't wanna be a teacher and I didn't wanna be a nurse and I didn't wanna be a secretary. And that's what was open for girls at that time. So I became a math major and I went to work for RCA up in the Boston area, and got into computer programming a year later because that was pretty much when, um, programming started becoming a real profession. So the timing was just incredible for somebody like me. And then Betty Friedan's book came along, "The Feminine Mystique", which I'm sure you've read about your history books. I think, I mean, it, it basically changed my life. Because what it did was, it, it just talked about women doing other things besides being mothers staying at home, which was something I really had not been looking forward to. By that time, I was married. And we had this little group of couples, there were three or four couples that used to get together every couple of weeks. And one of them said to me at some point, "Well, you've really carved out a career for yourself." Well, I'd never really thought about that. But I had, as I started into the computer programming business.
[00:14:36] McCall Holland: It is evident that Allen, however humble, was and is a standout leader and role model in the fight for women's space in higher education. As women began to be admitted to universities and fill this space, they were unsurprisingly met with more obstacles. The Dean of Women's Office, which one may expect to be advocates for women, seemingly worked against women by keeping them isolated from the greater campus community. The following clip is from an interview with Martha Deberry, talking about her friend and former Dean of Women. Katherine Carmichael.
[00:15:10] Interviewer 3: So, how do you think that she would feel about women at the university today? Do you think that it would concern her that there aren't many rules?
[00:15:22] Martha Deberry: Well, I think she would feel not unlike how I feel. It certainly concerns me when my friends tell me, you know, that their, their roommate has a live-in boyfriend in the dormitory. I really find that, you know, difficult in this day and time. And it's not, I, and I suspect that she would feel not unlike that.
[00:15:47] Interviewer 3: How do you think that she would feel about co-ed dorms, especially since her dorm is a co-ed dorm?
[00:15:53] Martha Deberry: You know, I think that is interesting. And I, I said when - at the dedication, when all that was going on, I said, "I want you to know, that Katherine Carmichael is turning over in her grave, that this is a co-ed dorm party." So, uh, that was not a concept she embraced.
[00:16:13] McCall Holland: The rules surrounding spaces for women in UNC history were extremely restrictive compared to the rules today. In the same interview, Deberry sites that the purpose for such regulations was to keep women safe in a new environment, a problem that still plagues women in the Carolina community.
[00:16:30] Interviewer 3: Chapel Hill is a different world sometimes.
[00:16:33] Martha Deberry: It is and it's - you know, your, your ivory tower that you forget what the real world - she says, you know, "If they want no rules, they'd be staying out all night." But she said, "You know, a girl, a woman, can't walk out at 2:00 in the morning. You can maybe get by with it in Chapel Hill better than your community once you leave Chapel Hill." And she says, "That's not the real world." She said, "It makes a difference if you're a woman. A man is much more likely to be safe and…" Well, that may even be questionable today, but you know, "…at that hour than a woman would be."

[00:17:05] McCall Holland: Many women on campus would agree that these safety issues are still a concern today. Situations such as not feeling safe on Franklin Street after a certain hour of night, for example, restrict women spatially and socially. Despite these obstacles, women have continued to be active participants in the UNC social scene. Concerning our second topic of interest, social life, we explored everything from women in sports, to women as guests, to dances on campus, which occurred before women were even permitted to attend the university. The clip you're about to hear is from an interview with former UNC women's soccer player Marcia McDermott, highlighting her vision for the perception of female athletes.
[00:17:50] Marcia McDermott: Ideally, I think you look at women's sports and - or I look at women's sports and I want, for one, for them to be just viewed as athletes. I mean, I think it's tremendous that we look at the differences between coaching male and female athletes. That's really important because, if you understand those differences, you can maximize the athletic potential of women. But ultimately, I'd like people to see women athletes as athletes. Now, when you compare a woman's version of the game to a man's version of the game, I'd like people to just say they're different, rather than one's superior to the other. I mean women's tennis may not be what men's tennis is, but you get as good a show from, uh, Seles v. Sabatini as you do from, from, you know, I don't even know who the top men are anymore, Becker and Lendl. So I would like instead of there being a sense of superiority to inferiority, more the sense of just difference. Which I think is fine, as long as we recognize that women athletes are just as dedicated and in pursuit of the same achievements. You know, in terms of the business side of it, I really don't think of that enough. For me, that's something - that's a flaw of mine I need to look at more, but I think that how businesslike athletics are for men isn't necessarily good. So I don't know if I'm - think that we need to have a similar businesslike mentality of women's. Although I would love for women to get paid in line with men, that's just not gonna happen because we don't earn in line with men and that's just reality. So I think the focus is more on continuing to be the recognition for athleti- -- for the athletes themselves.
[00:19:55] Marly Walls: My name is Marley walls. I am a junior at UNC, majoring in computer science and math. The fact that McDermott is not only recognizing but fully embracing the differences in women's and men's athletics is of utmost importance. There is no pretending that the two are or should be identical in nature. Instead, what we are hearing is McDermott calling for due respect and opportunities for female athletes as compared to male athletes. It is also important to recognize athletics not only as a crucial aspect of campus social life for participating athletes, but for the student body at large. Many students would agree that attending football games and basketball games are a significant part of the overall UNC social experience. This held true even before women were permitted to attend UNC. Many women would come to campus to attend sporting events, dances or other festivities often as the date of a male student. This following clip is from an interview with Grace Aycock, who would commute from UNC-Greensboro, which at the time was a woman's college, to attend social events at Chapel Hill.
[00:20:58] Interviewer 4: Uh, I know from hearing Fred talk about it, that there was a considerable bit of what, which people laugh at now, dating. We, women's college people dated people on the campus at Chapel Hill. Did you do any of that? Did you come over?
[00:21:13] Grace Aycock: Yes, I did. Yes, I did. I came to Chapel Hill for many dance occasions.
[00:21:20] Interviewer 4: Did you? Mm-hmm. Did - even when I was here, busses would come over from, from Greensboro. Did you do that when you came over?
[00:21:28] Grace Aycock: Yes, I did. For a football game. They're bussed over here in the morning and back that night.
[00:21:36] Interviewer 4: Mm-hmm. But, but you also had male dates here.
[00:21:39] Grace Aycock: Oh, yes.
[00:21:40] Interviewer 4: Yeah. And you would come over to see them specially?
[00:21:43] Grace Aycock: Had to date, when you arrived, who met the bus.
[00:21:46] Marly Walls: Similar to Aycock, many a woman made a point to take part in the social experiences that were Carolina dances. These dances, mainly hosted by the German club, used to be considered major events at UNC. This clip from an interview with Martha Deberry provides an interesting perspective on these dances as one of the few opportunities for men and women to join on campus.
[00:22:04] Interviewer 5: The students that were coming for help with graduate school, were they mostly women or did men come there also?
[00:22:14] Martha Deberry: No, the only time we really worked with the men a lot would be when - during orientation and during, uh, you know, events that will, major events that would be sponsored on the campus and that sort of thing.
[00:22:30] Interviewer 5: I see. Such as, say, the Germans dance or social events?
[00:22:34] Martha Deberry: Right. Right.
[00:22:31] Marly Walls: Interestingly enough, this sentiment seems to hold true amongst several women attending the university around this time. Apparently, it was not uncommon for men and woman to be separate on campus. In another clip from the same interview. Deberry discusses how this separation was mostly seen as a method to protect women, while exploring the deeper societal structures possibly at the root of this mentality.
[00:22:56] Interviewer 5: At the time, the segregation between men and women and the separation was seen more as a help to women, especially by the, the dean of women's office?
[00:23:10] Martha Deberry: Oh yeah, I think it was never, we never felt that it was a restraining influence as much as it, it gave you - and, you know, just like I told my daughter when she became of age to start dating and all that, I said, "Now, you know right now, that anytime you wanna blame something on me, don't hesitate to."
[00:23:30] Interviewer 5: My mother says the same thing, even now that I'm in college, almost graduated.
[00:23:36] Martha Deberry: Yeah, I really think that a kid needs to know that. Because you do get in circumstances that, to be able to say, "Oh, my mother would never let me stay out past so and so." You know, and we always felt - I think it may already be in the records, but my most familiar story with that was the time that the student at some, some male student at some student banquet, sitting across the table from me. And he said, "I wish you'd tell me about that rule that you can no longer park in Kenan Woods." And he said, "I think that's, that's just no area for the dean of women's to be involved in." And I said, "Well, tell me exactly what you're talking about." And he said, "Well, I was out with my date the other night and we went to Kenan Woods. And she said, 'Oh, the dean of women's office has this rule out now that you can't park in Kenan Woods." And I said, "Well, you know, you gotta have rules if you're gonna have these girls on the campus." And, uh, I just laughed about it. I was not about to contradict her. Of course, there was no such rule. But if you have no rules, which is essentially the way it is now.
[00:24:47] Interviewer 5: Right.
[00:24:47] Martha Deberry: Then you don't have anything to fall back on.
[00:24:50] Interviewer 5: It's, you have no excuse except, "I said so."
[00:24:54] Martha Deberry: Yeah.
[00:24:55] Interviewer 5: And then you have to answer why.
[00:24:57] Martha Deberry: Yeah. And, and I don't think there's anything wrong. I mean, we're not, we don't turn mature when we turn 16 or 18 or something like that.
[00:25:05] Interviewer 5: Right.
[00:25:06] Martha Deberry: And I'm afraid I still, still feel they ought to have rules. And I'm not, you know, they - I'm not saying the rules shouldn't have changed and, and obviously, you know, society has changed. But, um, I'm still of the opinion that we all operate better within a framework.
[00:25:20] Marly Walls: This balance of rules versus no rules has a similar feel to the discussion with Deberry in the space segment of the podcast, concerning women going out at night. This is an interesting balance to consider. While Deberry's thoughts on rules may be overly restrictive, the intention of keeping woman safe is the apparent motivation. While there are no rules today at UNC concerning interactions between men and women, or curfews for women, there still exists valid safety concern surrounding these issues. These matters permeate both space and social life and shape how women at UNC navigate these realms.
[00:26:01] Anne Claire Fourman: Hi, my name is Anne Claire Fourman, and I'm a senior in the school of media and journalism from Elizabeth City, North Carolina. Since their very first days at UNC, women have formed their own organizations and taken part in others. When Virginia Carson arrived at UNC-Chapel Hill to start her freshman year in the fall of 1967, she had no idea that her life of activism was about to begin. Carson protested at the 1968 Democratic National Convention in Chicago, she participated in the 1969 UNC-Chapel Hill food workers strike, and she actively opposed the Vietnam War throughout her four undergraduate years. She also developed a longstanding commitment to the Campus-Y, where she served as director from 2000 to 2009. In an interview, Carson discussed the gender discrimination she experienced in student organizations as a female student in the late 1960s.
[00:26:56] Interviewer 6: Gonna ask you something interesting. What did you feel as a woman in the antiwar movement? Did you feel anything in terms of discrimination or…
[00:27:08] Virginia Carson: Um, the, the gender issues changed substantially right in this time period. I can't chart them for you completely. But they cha- -- I grew up a child of the '50s, a girl in the '50s. And girls, it was very clear, were raised to be wives and mothers. It was okay to be smart if you were going to employ that for the furtherance of a great man, and to be an ornament and raise smart kids. That was okay. But it was absolutely a bad idea to step out of the s- -- the normal social boundaries. And, and that was policed pretty much by both - by, by the culture in the '50s and the early '60s. For example, there was one woman at, in Raleigh who was a lawyer and insisted on having a law practice, you know, like working. And, and the other women would say things like, "Well, she only had one child." Like, "If she'd had more children, she wouldn't have time for this hobby." Or, or, or, you know, "This is just something she insisted on." But, but it was really socially policed that you didn't get outta line. And so that's what I came in with. Um, and that's why someone like Anne, for example, wa- -- was such a huge influence. Because she had, on the one hand, charted a different path. On the other hand, she was very respected and, and accepted both socially and professionally. So it's like, "Wow," you know, "maybe you could do something different after all." And then in the Vietnam issue, women weren't being drafted. So, again, clear distinctions, but the need for every voice seemed increasingly clear, that, that we did have a role to play in broadening the, the public dialogue and representing every voice. Not, not just young men or old men or white men or something like that. So that's when I think our perceptions really started to change and, and at the Y, for example, a woman's voice had, you know, had a reception that certainly I'd never been accustomed to. If I had any thoughts, no one ever wanted to know what they might be. Um, uh, so it, it was more like opening space for women to operate in. And still probably not on a leadership level or less likely to be on a leadership level, the face of leadership still looked pretty male, but there were beginning to be signs. Bella Abzug was a congresswoman in New York, Gloria Steinem had surfaced by then. Somehow, this is maybe early '70s, I might be a little bit ahead, but, but in that time period, there was a woman on the North Carolina Supreme Court, Susie Sharp. She was the firsts woman on - so it's like, "Wow," you know? There were beginning to, to be changes and you could think about at least doing something else with your life.
[00:31:29] Anne Claire Fourman: Beyond enabling students' social lives, safeguarding their health has been one of the university's main responsibilities, but officials have often accepted prevailing public opinions regarding women's reproductive rights, permitting core aspects of women's health to go unspoken. Mid-century attitudes that prized secrecy surrounding women's health were mirrored in policy on campus. Prior to 1972, a pregnant student would be denied admission to the university based upon this factor alone. An enrolled student suspected of having an abortion would be punished by expulsion. It took work, such as Dr. Takey Chris and Lana Starnes' influential pamphlet, "Elephants and Butterflies", to increase campus-wide acceptance of conversations of reproductive health and rights. "Elephants and Butterflies" took a remarkably frank approach to sexual health education. It contained straightforward information on anatomy, pregnancy, abortion, and contraception. Dr. Takey Chris is a key campus figure in this movement. The sexual education class he taught at Carolina, Health Ed 33, was the only one of its kind on campus. Victor Schoenbach, who was an undergraduate at UNC in the mid 1970s, describes the experience.

[00:32:45] Victor Schoenbach: Found out about UNC, wandered around learning about things. And I stumbled across - I don't know how I heard of it, but I heard about this sex education course, Health ED 33, taught by Takey Crist, Dr. Takey Crist. So I said, "Oh, that seems interesting." So I went there to sit in on it, it was a large lecture hall. It was Rosenau Auditorium.
[00:33:06] Interviewer 7: How many people do you think?
[00:33:08] Victor Schoenbach: Well, the room held probably 270 at the time, and it was pretty full. I was told that when that course, you know, registration for that course - in those days, this wasn't by computer. You'd, you'd go to the gym or something like that to sign up and people would go there the night before and camp out to try to get a ticket into that class.
[00:33:27] Anne Claire Fourman: Victor Schoenbach's anecdotes about this class's popularity shows UNC students wanted to receive an education on sexual health. Particularly given that this may have been missed in high school curriculum. People wanted change and that started with education. However, women have not only struggled with attitudes and barriers to reproductive health, access to mental health services on campus has been a longstanding issue. During his time at Chapel Hill, Victor Schoenbach was involved in the work of the Human Sexuality Information Counseling Services, or HSICS. Here, he describes the work of the service and how he got involved.
[00:34:10] Victor Schoenbach: So, as I recall, we were on the second floor of the Student Union, which was a lot smaller than it is now. It was the one building rather than the two buildings. And there was like a partition and a couple of chairs behind it and the phones on this little counter or something. And calls would come in, I can't remember how often but you know often enough that it was worth being there, but you know, we weren't, the- -- they weren't ringing off the hook. And occasionally someone would drop by and we probably would go off to talk with them somewhere. There were usually two people on duty. There were problem pregnancy counselors that were women. There were gay resource counselors who typically would not be sitting there all the time, but if we had a inquiry or a question from someone, we would refer them usually.
[00:34:56] Anne Claire Fourman: Organizations like the HSICS helped increase students' access to health resources on campus. Particularly notable were the services problem pregnancy counselors. They were trained to give advice to enrolled students, usually presenting with unintended pregnancies. While it was becoming easier to access help, such help was far from stigma-free. Women have faced, and still face, barriers to healthcare on UNC Campus.
[Dialogue-free audio 00:35:24-00:37:16]
[00:37:17] Anisha Tucker: I'm Anisha Tucker, a junior from Charlotte, who is studying health policy and management and women in gender studies. This university has seen many forms of activism as students navigate the patriarchal, white supremacist landscape. Within the Southern Oral History Project, we struggled to find voices of activists who directly participated and led these very important movements. These voices are those of students, faculty and people of color who are devalued and made invisible to protect the image of the university. Nonetheless, we made it our mission to amplify their experiences. Here are the stories that are able to be told from the clips that we found. The struggle for a free-standing Black Cultural Center is one that embodies one of the ways students organized and mobilized around physical spaces on campus. The Stone Center opened in 1988 and was named after Sonja Haynes Stone, a beloved professor and prominent activist at UNC-Chapel Hill. The Sonja Haynes Stone Center for Black Culture and History represents her legacy and the student activists that fought to make the center a reality. This student activism helped open a dialogue about African American culture and experiences in Chapel Hill and beyond, which has become an important mission for the center. Renee Alexander Craft, a communications professor, reflects on this mission in the following excerpt.
[00:38:41] Renee Alexander Craft: So, it was to say, um, African American culture and history have been underrepresented and undervalued at this university. African American students as a population have also faced a particular set of issues, blocks, etcetera, that need to be redressed. So this center can go a long way to redressing that, not just for African American students. You know, this center can be a space for the campus community to learn about, you know, Black culture in history, to be able to have conversations, etcetera, but in a space that centers Black culture and history. Like, there is not another space on campus to do that. So that was kind of the counter. It is - absolutely, instead of trying to make this mixing pot space, let there be the multiple spaces that need to ha- -- to redress some of these historical absences, absences, and some of these historical homes.
[00:39:49] Anisha Tucker: Even so, activism spread beyond physical and tangible spaces, and into literature and theory. Feminary was a newsletter that reported the activities of various feminist groups in the Triangle during the 1960s. In the '70s, Mab Seagrest played an instrumental role in Feminary's evolution from a newspaper to a literary journal emphasizing the lesbian vision. Seagrest is now a well-known lesbian feminist writer, scholar and activist. Here, she explains how working on Feminary was her first step into activism and how her writing created a platform for cultural change.
[00:40:21] Mab Seagrest: Yeah, it was cultural activism. But yeah, mm-hmm. And it was my first politi- -- being politicized. And we definitely considered ourselves activists and writing was a form of activism, and we - and when we would participate, like when they were, um, the first gay - well, the first lesbian/gay march in North Carolina happened in Durham in '81, I think, when there's a gay man - he was killed out at, out at, uh, Little River. So the Feminary women were instrumental in, in helping to pull together. I think, I mean I know that I was. I can't remember, kinda all blurs, but we were involved in things like that. Writing statements for it. I was. Yeah, I wasn't - that was separate from Feminary, I think. Um, pulling together press conferences sometimes, being in demonstrations, and things like that. But it was mainly cultural work. And that was just this very strong sense that get- -- telling our stories was important for reclaiming our lives and helping other women do that in this collective kind of way, this very feminist energy, and that, um, shifting the culture would give people different perspectives and a different power base to make things different.
[00:41:41] Anisha Tucker: When one hears "Carolina community", it's easy to think about the students, faculty and staff that make up the university. But for many, the Carolina community extends beyond campus. Women in Chapel Hill have found community off campus for a variety of reasons. Some were social in their purpose, while others served as coalitions who advocated for change based on a shared vision of individual and communal growth. Even though their methods were different, each created spaces of empowerment to meet their social and economic needs. Even when their presence was not welcome within a racist and sexist society. The following groups and individuals represent a snapshot of the Chapel Hill community in the 1970s. During this time, groups of women and other marginalized individuals were forging their own community. The University Women's Club reveals that the Chapel Hill community was not always inclusive for all women in Chapel Hill. The club was an exclusive social group established in 1949 for faculty wives and the few female faculty members employed at the university. The club had strict membership requirements, usually based on employment status, that prevented many women from joining the group's social activities, like their regular luncheons at the Carolina Inn. The club hand made programs for each luncheon, which outlined the menu and scheduled events for the gathering. If you're wondering, lunch regularly included fresh fruit and coffee, and popular activities at the luncheon included flower arranging and quilting. The group maintained society's prevailing ideas about suitable activities and expectations of women. The University Women's Club still exists. They have recognized and addressed their problematic history. Now their website lists that all women are welcome and their president, Brenda Schoonover, says that the organization is made up of a diverse group of women representing various ages as well as educational and professional backgrounds. While the University Women's Club reveals the exclusivity of some communities, another group active in Chapel Hill during the 1970s was advocating for change and forging their own community, Lollipop Power. Lollipop Power, was a female owned and operated printing press that published nonsexist, antiracist, queer-inclusive children's books. Their books sought to counter the lack of diversity and sexism found in other children's literature at the time. Listen to what Lorna Chafe, a founding member of Lollipop Power, had to say about how the group was trying to empower their children and challenge norms in the community.
[00:44:15] Lorna Chafe: And we brought up our children, as very much as we could, to be open to every possibility. So that our, our son could, could cry and he could wear pretty clothes and he could play with anything he wanted to. Uh, and our daughter could be strong and could, you know, um, do th- -- they, in other words, all those roles, all those possibilities were open to both kids. Um, and as, you know, as much as one can in a, in a world where everybody doesn't agree with you, um, we, we challenged those, those norms in the community.
[00:45:01] Anisha Tucker: The nonprofit operated from 1970 to 1986 in Chapel Hill and Carrboro, and published many works that addressed important social issues and nontraditional identities. Lollipop Power's published works include books like "Lots of Mommies" and "Jesse's Dream Skirt". Not only were the books empowering and challenging social norms, but the company was run as a collective business model which allowed all of the women involved to learn valuable business skills. While Lollipop Power was working for women through children's books, Mildred Council of Mama Dips restaurant was working on political organizing and advocacy for women in general. But, Council focused primarily on helping Black women experiencing domestic violence.
[00:45:43] Interviewer 8: That's wonderful, Mildred. I didn't know that. And you were also in- -- involved with the Women's Center as well.
[00:45:51] Mildred Council: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Um, I like the Women's Center. Uh, only thing about the Women's Center with me, it's just a little upscale, you know? It's a little upscale for me. And what, what, what it is, is that, um, long as I was there and how I tried to get some of the other Black women to come in, and I know that a lot of them need attorneys, you know, to, that peoples in the family die. And, you know, s- -- in land transaction, (inaudible - 00:46:23), and separation and divorces and things like that. And, uh, I knew I could do it, you know, and I, I was thinking that I could do it better, better on my own, you know? It's too, it's too, uh - because I'd tell them and they wouldn't come, you know. And so, and I was thinking that I could do better just, you know, on my own. Not, not being in an organization. Because organization is something that most Black people fear, not unless it's something like the Elks, or, or, you know, or something like that. They fear organization. They have to be in a church for them to be in kinda organization, and then to - and it's so few in the church compared to n- -- the other people, you know, once you got to get them prepared to go to a place like church, you know. And I, I liked that better.
[00:47:15] Interviewer 8: So you felt like you really couldn't help the women in, in your community?
[00:47:19] Mildred Council: Uh-huh, that's right. I, uh-huh, not through the Women's Center because --
[00:47:23] Interviewer 8: Yeah, I could see that.
[00:47:23] Mildred Council: -- I had been there for a while. I had been support- -- I had been supportive for a long time, you know? And, but, I just didn't felt like I could ha- -- uh-huh. Mm-hmm.
[00:47:31] Interviewer 8: I could see that happening now. Okay. Um, uh, Mildred, what would you - I think, uh, you probably answered this. But what would you tell a Black woman today about, um, a way in which she could better herself? Or what, what would you recommend to her to, to better herself? Say a young, a young Black girl.
[00:48:07] Mildred Council: Uh-huh. I would tell them the same thing that, you know, I tell my children, uh, my girls. Um, and, um, I tell it to one of my workers now. Uh, I got two worker- -- two ladies, ladies that work for me. Both of them is in domestic violence, you know? And, and I, I tell them that, um, "Don't spend the 32 years in it like I did," you know? "Because it's, it's a way out of it, but you talk to the person that is, is bothering you, you know? Then, talk to him. And you show him your black eye. And you, you show him that the money you spend on food and the money that he's not spending on…This is why I don't have any money." You know?
[00:49:01] Anisha Tucker: Through her own experiences and position in the community, Council helped countless women through hard times. She was essentially a supportive voice for those who are too uncomfortable to go through traditional avenues like the Woman's Center.
[00:49:16] Dr. Katie Turk: For their assistance with this project, we wish to thank the staff of Louis Round Wilson Library, especially Sarah Carrier, Rachel Reynolds, Jason Tomberlin and Matt Turi; course assistants, Laura Lookabout (ph) and Arama Sanchez (ph); the Digital History Lab at UNC-Chapel Hill, especially its codirectors, Craig Gill, Gabrielle Moss, Emma Rothberg and student assistant, Ash Curry (ph); the Southern Oral History Program; and the students who pulled everything together, Olivia Bell (ph), Yona Bukhari (ph), Megan Downs (ph), Anne Claire Fourman, Brent Garner (ph), Gwyneth Graham (ph), Griffin Grow (ph), Megan Harrington (ph), McCall Holland, Kate Karstens (ph), Sarah Moore, Emily Orland (ph), Asia Sailor (ph), Skylar Singleton (ph), David Smith (ph), Kelsey Sutton (ph), Anisha Tucker, Zoe Yvonne (ph), Marly Walls, and Abby Warly (ph).

Duration

49.12 minutes